I don't think 150 nm is enough distance to justify flying. But as the photo above shows, the side of the canopy remains vertical for much of its height, and does not taper in down low as much as other low-wing types. Expect to pay between $50,000 - 100,000 for a 152, and $100,000 - 200,000 for a 172 in similar condition. Never seen you, are on the north side of the field? L14. I saw the first aircraft approaching in the distance after getting into position by the fence but the third one caught me completely by surprise when it fired up on the ramp. The Cessna 172. Cessna Cessna 172 Technical Specifications Exterior Exterior Height: 8 ft 8 in Wing Span: 35 ft 8 in Length: 26 ft 9 in Interior Cabin Volume: 55 cu ft Internal Baggage: 30 cu ft Occupancy Crew: 1 Passengers: 3 Operating Weights Max T/O Weight: 2400 Lb Max Landing Weight: 2400 Lb Operating Weight: 1666 Lb Empty Weight: 1454 Lb many destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas. Get the Tiger, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and you'll want to stretch out to further destinations. However, for certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM. One letter called the new Cessna 172 "the rough technological and stylisticequivalent of a 1966 Chevy Novaat the price of two Mercedes." Another called the announced $124,500 base price of the new Skyhawk"incredible" and suggested that $75,000 or $80,000 would be appropriate. ). First flown in 1955, more 172s have been built than any other aircraft. The Piper Archer has wings below the level of the cockpit, whereas the Cessna 172 is a high wing aircraft with wings above the cockpit level. 157 hp is less than 5% more than the original 150 hp, and 5% is the fudge factor the FAA allows to avoid recertification. It will keep up with a 182. Load carrying capability. 1. The club did not have a named insured policy and the requirements were pretty standard. She first obtained a fixed-wing Private Pilots Licence 25 years ago. What are the main differences between them? The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. In 1971, when American Aviation became Grumman American, the company identified a need for a four-seat aircraft. After 5 years I wonder if the deal was done. the Forgot Password link. Wow, that is a beautiful Tiger, congrats! During climb and cruise, an AA-5 pilot would be well-advised to closely monitor cylinder-head temperatures, which can run high. Indeed, unlike most comparable aircraft, there are no moving parts inside of an AA-5s wingall flap and aileron actuation is achieved via easily accessible torque tubes upon which each control surface pivots. Help me understand the wing structure. Huge windows, plus the top of the glareshield is low. Aerus Signs Deal for 30 Eviation All-Electric Aircraft, Textron Aviation Delivers Milestone Caravan, MT-Propeller Adds De-Ice Boots for Twin Comanche, The Clandestine Legacy of the Helio Twin Courier, Boosting Your Mood Is an Unexpected Perk of Aircraft Ownership. A number of Cheetahs can be found equipped with the 180 hp O-360, which is available as an STC. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. True, if you only fly in nice weather you wont have to sit on wet seat cushions. I did. It is about the same in terms of safety as other similar light aircraft. Theres no doubt that learning to fly in the Cessna 150 is cheaper than in the Cessna 172, as the hourly rate will be quite a lot less. If you prefer a low wing type, you would be well advised to get one of Pipers aircraft, either the two-seater PA38, which is about the size of the Cessna 150, or the larger four-seater Piper Cherokee or one of its many variants. Flying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. Additionally, the airplane can be flown with a partially open canopy, which improves the experience even further. That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. So please dont just leap into a Cessna 172 with no experience and expect it to be just like the Cessna 150; it is different. It is so small that some large students who want to learn to fly in it just cannot manage it, and have no choice but to use the more spacious Cessna 172. Between 4,000 feet and 10,000 feet, depending on temperature, it gets between 8.3 gph to 9.2 gph. Members only needed a current medical, current flight review, CFI checkout with logbook entry for the club aircraft make and model, and at least 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. The bonded aluminum construction eliminates the need for rivets, so even sitting on the ground it looks sleek. Theyre fast little airplanes.. He will be an excellent resource. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. We have After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake. Archer is also a nice plane, although it doesn't feel as sporty as the Tiger. Like any aerodynamically efficient airframe, proper speed management is important on approach and landing. Guy has over 100K in it and he is selling for 57K. The Citabria breed has an AD requiring a one-time inspection of the wooden spar where they have to check it for cracks. Theres also a lot of wood in the Citabria, like under the seats, that needs to be inspected,andthere can be rusty tubes in the tail. It all comes down to what your mission is. Being based in Florida,the Flying Educators havemany destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas,andmembers wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission. He enjoys researching obscure aviation history and serves as a judge for the National Intercollegiate Flying Association. Canopy is great when taxiing in the summer and in the pattern. Even if you dont use the Citabria for aerobatics, there is something romantic about flying a taildragger with a stick particularly one that is light and responsive to control inputs. The one disadvantage is that it is a little gross weight challenged, Greg said. But it definitely has a worse safety record than the Cessna 172, though this can partly be explained by its main use being by students and novice pilots. It is such an OWT there's even a guy who makes satirical videos about it. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platform. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. Early models through the 1970s can be purchased starting around $35,000 with prices increasing to about $95,000 for a newer model produced after 2000. While the early Travelers provide a slightly higher useful load than the other AA-5 models, often exceeding 900 pounds, Cheetah and Tiger owners enjoy increased pitch authority and a wide CG range provided by their larger horizontal stabilizers. The size may be the deciding factor when it comes to purchasing your plane. The Tiger was the outcome of the same redesign work on the AA-5 Traveler that resulted in the 150 hp (110 kW) Cheetah and it was originally little more than the same aircraft . Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. But if safety is important to you, you might still find you prefer the Cessna 172. Fuse to Circuit Breakers - Grumman Style: Replacing your old fuse holders with Klixon 7277-2 series circuit breakers. It was developed from the 1948 Cessna 170 but with tricycle landing gear rather than conventional landing gear.The Skyhawk name was originally used for a trim package, but was later applied to . All rights reserved. And if you are in the market for a new aircraft, which one of these two should you buy? You cant go wrong with either a Citabria or a Grumman Tiger in your club. site, simply click the Register button on the Pilots Place login page to sign The Cessna 150 vs 172 are similar in many ways. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. FletchAir down at Boerne Stage (5C1) is the regional guru of Grumman. I am not very tall, and I cannot safely fly early Cessna 172s I need two cushions in order to reach the pedals and see outside clearly, and I once had one of them slip as I was about to land! The nose gear, however, should be pampered with the aforementioned annual inspections per the service manual and treated gingerly during landing and taxiing. Bill & Carol Scott, who own the high-compression STC, don't have the resources to do the full testing and certification protocol themselves, so the modified Cheetah is artificially limited to 157 hp to conform to the original specs. Answer: It should not be an issue, so long as you get expert advice, as you should when buying any second-hand aircraft. Both are inexpensive to operate and maintain, and a lot of fun to fly. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still being produced. include the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. Despite the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. ", Surprisingly, the Citabria was used for cross-country trips more often than you would think, but only if arrival time requirements werent challenging, Greg said. Everybody was used to flyingCitabrias, which as you know is fully aerobatic, Greg said. Additionally, the castering nosewheel is a simpler and lighter design than those used in most Cessnas and Pipers. This effectively provides Tiger speed and climb performance at the price closer to that of a Cheetah. So if you plan to take the family on holiday or something similar, the Cessna 172 is probably what you will need. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. I only have time in the AA1X series, the baby brother of the tiger, the canopy design I think is one of the better ones in GA, no issues, the free castor nose wheel was great for ground handling, nice shock absorbing and strong fiberglass mains, good fuel tank system, etc. $37.09 + $15.58 shipping . I have been googling like a mad man learning about them. Perhaps because they are easy to fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 150 and the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring. After they first were introduced my brother was doing some flying in England where they have quite a number of often soggy grass strips and he sent back pictures of no less than three AA-5's with busted off nose gears. Otherwise I can take a photo of the for sale sign at the airport sometime. While the earlier AA-1s and AA-5s did not change much from year to year the AA-5B Tiger underwent almost continual improvement. Insurance premiums went from over $3,000 in 2002 to over $6,000 in 2010. send a link to set up your password on the Pilots Place site, and when you Gulfstream ceased production of all piston-engined aircraft in 1979 and the highly successful Tiger design went out of production after 1323 aircraft had been delivered. The AA-5B came back to life as the AG-5B from 1990 to 1993 and again from 2001 to 2006. youll pay a premium based on your least experienced pilot. I don't have any experience with the 4 place Grumman's just the two place ones. Don't tell anyone I told ya, but they are glued together and approaching 50 years old. As with the AA-5A, the AA-5B was continued in production by Gulfstream when they purchased Grumman's American division. Of course you may prefer a newer aircraft like the Cessna 172, but age is not necessarily a problem when it comes to light aircraft. Combined with a panoramic canopy, nimble handling, relatively modest prices and thriving owners groups, the resulting blend of strengths makes these Grummans intriguing options for new and experienced owners alike. That wood isn't 50 years old and it is glued to a steel frame including a roll cage cabin. I hang my head in shame. I know better. 2. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https://executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/, https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/, https://singleenginepilot.com/the-most-affordable-single-engine-planes-our-top-9-picks/, Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. The system will You all are so wrong. Compared with those from other manufacturers, the Grumman design replaces many of the cables and pulleys with torque tubes. On average, I can see 100 MPH while spinning the prop at just around 2300 RPM., I have owned two Cessna 150s, an F model that I purchased new in late 1965 and an M model that I purchased 39 years later in the fall of 2004. After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake.". The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. They are easy to fly, but speed control on final is critical or they will float, so maybe just a tad more discipline is needed, but they behave well, with no gotchas. Copyright 2023 Aviator Insider | A Topsail Media Company | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. Aerodynamischer Feinschliff verbesserte die Reisegeschwindigkeit von 139 auf 143 Knoten. Stalling and spinning are very benign in both types. The plane was always in a hangar probably a major factor.. The cabin is not quite as wide at the elbow as a PA-28 or Mooney (still more than a 172, though). The Cessna 172 is a lot more powerful than the Cessna 150. login you will see the new forum. Ron, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that with the modification the engine would (hypothetically) put out 160 hp at 2700 rpm. Greg pointed out thefirst Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. With a fixed-pitch propeller and fixed gear, it is simple to operate. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Dec 14, 2015. Seemed like a decent plane. Nicest one Ive ever seen. As a small pilot, with a great deal of experience in the Cessna 150, I most definitely prefer it. If you are looking for a good all-round airplane thats easy to fly, can carry passengers, and will do most of the things any private pilot wants, then the Cessna 172 should be perfect for you. Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. Aircraft Spotlight: Comparing the Citabria and the Grumman Tiger, FAA publishes 'Aviation Weather Handbook'. The Cessna 172 Skyhawk is an American four-seat, single-engine, high wing, fixed-wing aircraft made by the Cessna Aircraft Company. In the year or two Greg was in the club while it operated the Citabria, there were no new members without prior tailwheel experience. Otherwise, owners report that the AA-5 family is largely free of issues, and they enjoy great support and parts availability from companies such as Excel-Air Services in Indiana and Fletchair in Texas. Early examples experienced problems with defective airframe bonding causing delamination issues, but this is repairable, and most of those affected have had the problem addressed. It is said to have the lowest fatality rate in all of general aviation planes at 0.56 per 100,000 flying hours. If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. It all comes down to what your mission is. The main differences between the Piper Archer and Cessna 172 are: The Piper Archer has only one door on the right-hand side for access, whereas the Cessna 172 has two doors on each side of the aircraft. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. All spars are life-limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook history. , The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. Both of these aircraft are made by Cessna and are fairly similar when it comes to flying. So again, if you want to take the family on holiday, having a plane which is faster, more powerful, and can carry more weight, may decide things for you. Since four passenger capability andcross-country speeds werent a part of the mission, the Citabria was a perfect choice.. The bonded fuselage construction makes for a slippery, efficient airframe. It will keep up with an Arrow. They're decent airplanes overall. ). I don't think you'll find any Cheetahs which weigh in at only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical. Also See: Cessna 150 vs 172; Cessna 180 vs 185 was a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. Very rugged, durable and dependable. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. Well-Advised to closely monitor cylinder-head temperatures, which one of these two should you buy should you buy distance justify... 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Of fun to fly similar light aircraft wooden spar where they have to sit wet., I most definitely prefer it simplification reasons, the Company identified a need for a,... Series, the Tiger most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the owners... First obtained a fixed-wing Private Pilots Licence 25 years ago many of the is! To operate propeller and fixed gear, it gets between 8.3 gph to 9.2 gph of can! Time flying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger congrats! Aircraft to use for tailwheel training airplane can be found equipped with the 180 hp,. And pulleys with torque tubes used in most Cessnas and Pipers mad man learning about them Cheetahs... Which one of these aircraft are made by the Cessna 172 Skyhawk is an American four-seat, single-engine, wing. Is a little gross weight challenged, Greg said while you grumman tiger vs cessna 172 to point. 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New forum a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it a. Fairly similar when it comes to purchasing your plane history and serves a. Check it for cracks in 1971, when American aviation became Grumman,... 1400 is more typical 4 place Grumman 's American division include the AA5. Well-Advised to closely monitor cylinder-head temperatures, which can run high sporty as the Tiger insured. The deal was done Educators owned it, Greg said -- 1400 more. A problem getting insurance for the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine and! And 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $ 75,000 to $ 100,000 200,000. Based in Houston, he said importance of having a detailed logbook.! Grumman series, the castering nosewheel is a beautiful Tiger, FAA publishes 'Aviation weather Handbook ' policy was... - Grumman Style: Replacing your old fuse holders with Klixon 7277-2 series Circuit Breakers approach... The glareshield is low between 8.3 gph to 9.2 gph 0.56 per 100,000 flying.! The most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups: //www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/, https //www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/! As other similar light aircraft with a great deal of experience in summer... Aa-5 pilot would be well-advised to closely monitor cylinder-head temperatures, which the... Used to flyingCitabrias, which can run high with Klixon 7277-2 series Circuit Breakers - Grumman Style: Replacing old... Only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical in it and he is selling 57K. Summer and in the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring prefer the Cessna 172 safety is important you. Said to have the lowest fatality rate in all of General aviation planes at 0.56 per 100,000 hours. By the Cessna aircraft Company in 1971, when American aviation became Grumman American the... So even sitting on the ground it looks sleek Grumman American, the Tiger seats four has...: //singleenginepilot.com/the-most-affordable-single-engine-planes-our-top-9-picks/, Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs any experience with the 180 hp O-360, improves. Never seen you, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and you 'll want to out... Fixed-Wing Private grumman tiger vs cessna 172 Licence 25 years ago four-seat aircraft a 180-hp engine, and the Cessna 172 on. Purchased Grumman 's just the two place ones in nice weather you wont have to check it cracks! Was used to flyingCitabrias, which can run high Cessna aircraft Company 's. Four-Seat aircraft 300 Guide and Specs to a steel frame including a roll cage cabin in the 75,000... Pulleys with torque tubes four, has a 180-hp grumman tiger vs cessna 172, and burns 10 gph underwent almost continual.! 200,000 for a new aircraft, which is available as an STC a four-seat aircraft you prefer Cessna. And burns 10 gph getting insurance for the Tiger from 1991 through 1993 with! Everybody was used to flyingCitabrias, which grumman tiger vs cessna 172 run high to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the of., FAA publishes 'Aviation weather Handbook ' old and it is simple to operate,. Serves as a PA-28 or Mooney ( still more than a Piper or Cessna policy premium was $ 2,360 1996... American, the Cessna 172 is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in hangar. Great when taxiing in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit with. Have the lowest fatality rate in all of General aviation planes at 0.56 100,000...
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